Is there a reason there isn't a newegg link for the alternative setups? I mean, I understand people like to mix and match, but it seems like switching to a multi video card setup like in the Sweet Spot alternative would force you to change a few other parts around. You mention adding additional cooling components... why not make a newegg link to the complete system as you would build it?

(By the way, keep up the great work on these quarterly guides!)

Interesting watching the price of these items some time later.

Econobox has gone down: $542.89--> $529.89
Grand Experiment has gone down:$964.88-->$941.88
Sweet Spot is about the same.
Double stuff has gone up: $3022.88-->$3,024.86

A little disappointed in the ram suggestions. I was hoping for some inside information on what ram liked which motherboards the best. Overclocking experience varies greatly and one of the factors is ram choice.

I have never understood the inclusion of dedicated graphics on the econobox. Build a 780g system and add a graphics card later if you need it.

I know the article didn't deal with deals and rebates but that is really the way to go on a tight budget. Rebate deals of $77 8800gt and $57 4gig OCZ memory is the way to get the biggest bang for the buck.

The criticism will be that price is not the only factor but its not like I'm recommending Raidmax psus and Via chipsets.

3 weeks ago I recommended a computer to a friend that is almost exactly the grand experiment, with exception of the motherboard and the sound card. So far, judging by the noises of war that I hear from his room, he seems pretty content :D

I think the GA-EP35-DS3L should be retired soon. The GA-EP43-DS3L costs $10 more and has more SATA ports, one more PCIE slot, and die-shrunk chipset to save energy. P43 chipset is not a problem since the Econobox or Grand Experiment builds don't dabble with Crossfire anyway.

Also, I humbly suggest the E7200 for an alternative to the Grand Experiment. It is very easily overclocked to 3.16GHz by changing its BUS speed to 333MHz. That means, for $60 less than the E8400, you lose only 1MB of cache in practice. As you have mentioned before, $60 is 2GB more RAM or half an OS for some people, so it should be a worthy mention.

I have to admit that I am slightly biased since I own both the above mentioned P43 board and the E7200. However, I have such great success with them that I think it will be a sin not to share the info. Peace out.

XP64 is basically windows server 2003 and therefore will have a really long lifetime and what exclusive feature of vista64 are you talking about, slower disk and network performance?

How about a guide for mATX system? It seems as though reviews of mATX motherboards seem hard to find.

Why GA-EP35-DS3L instead of GA-EP45-DS3L or GA-EP43-DS3L (which I just bought)? They have the new ICH10. Tried and true is one thing, but the new boards do have more SATA channels and support higher FSB's and RAM clocks. And knowing Intel, a new revision of a product with minimal change other than a die shrink is typically going to be the better bet.

Incidentally, I just got an NSK6580 (same case as 4480, I think, but a 430W Earthwatts PSU) for $55 on sale (and I had to check with a salesperson to be sure it was right, because that's crazy). I went into the store to get a Solo case and Earthwatts 380W (since they don't carry Seasonic), but when I saw a case AND PSU for less than the PSU alone, well... how could I pass it up? I knew I could always throw the case away if I didn't like it, and still come out ahead.

But the case is flimsy, cheap-feeling (screwholes not quite lining up...) and loud. I'm going to wait until I see a Solo on sale somewhere, get that, and move my stuff into it... and get rid of the NSK6580 case, which I really don't like, even though externally it really seems very similar to the Solo. But don't be fooled - it's not. It is a great deal for someone on a tight budget, but I would not consider it if you have $60 more for a Seasonic SII + Solo case, and care about noise at all. Of course if you are more into overclocking than noise, the NSK6580-style case is the better deal, with side air vents and so forth.

NSK6580:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129033
Note how the case looks identical to the 4480.

Solid choices. I'm in the middle of purchasing a system between the econobox and grand experiment. e7200, gigabyte ep43 mobo, no sound card, 4 gigs of g skill 1066 ram, $30 MIR on the asus hd4850, etc...

My church has been buying $5k+ Mac Pro workstations for their media crew. Now these Apple boxes are actually the best value in terms of powerhouse workstations that have 8-cores when you spec out similar systems from dell and hp. especially once you factor in the osx as a platform for production quality software. however, i can't seem to make a compelling enough argument for a 8-core homebuilt system that might save that much money for us.

The dual socket workstation mobos are very expensive as well as the dual 4-core xeons. the fb-dimms are not cheap either! i was surprised that i couldnt build a similar system for much less than $5k after getting 8 gigs of ram, raid 5 system hard drives + storage hard drives, etc... .

i guess the 4-core single socket workstation in the double stuff makes sense for most people, but it seems like the workstations in the retail space are now 8-core dual socket workstations, and i think that the market has moved there, and that might be a build to consider instead of something with 4 hard drives and dual video cards. which seems much more like a home enthusiast system, than a workstation.

Just some thoughts, and i'm open to hearing feed back on these thoughts. it just seems like people with $3k+ budgets are usually people in media/video/graphics production, and while i can see a good argument for fast hard drive performance, the dual video cards seem to be less of a selling point than 8-cores. (which are actually useful in this sector)

although adobe might make use of dual graphics cards soon in PS.

what do you guys think?

but the rest of the article was very good. i'm usually not impressed by chipset refreshes, but the p45/43 chipset's oc potential is very useful with budget cpus.

Windows Live Mesh Supports RDC for all versions, so that consideration can officially be taken out of the list, as Mesh, available sometime in the near future(currently in beta) will provide RDC for all.

Gigabyte's GA-EP35-DS3L gets our vote for this build...
We'd be happier if Gigabyte had included RAID support with an ICH9R south bridge rather than the vanilla ICH9...

They did exactly that with the GA-EP35-DS3R - http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.a...

If you want the RAID model, then, er, recommend the RAID model :)

Nice guide, I'm glad that 8GB of ram was brought into the picture.

On another note I totally disagree with Windows XP 64 being a dead end. I've had almost no issues with drivers with it. All the major graphics and sound cards have drivers for it. Its arguably the most stable windows around. If you want a system thats rock stable and good for VM hosting give it a shot.

Dumb question, but what does everyone think about a 3870 in place of a 9600GT for an econobox rig? Price difference is only 5 bucks (either way: that XFX is sandwiched between an HIS and ASUS 3870). Don't they perform about the same?

I love this guide. It's my favorite thing to read when it comes out every quarter. Thanks TR!!

nice guide, though might be worth updating the cooling section - Zalman's heatsinks are way behind the curve now, something like the Thermalright Ultra Extreme or one of the new Xigmatek direct touch models would be better.

I'd also suggest the E7200 - very cool running and doesn't give up much to the E8200, but has a much higher multiplier for overclocking.

I would suggest adding the E7200 as another alternative to the Econobox. Its a great budget chip for people who want to spend a little more (+$60 over the E2180) for quite a bit more power up front (and who want to jump on the 45nm bandwagon immediately).

I kind of miss the Home Theater PC guide that was included in the last system guide, as I am building one soon and tend not to keep up as much with the non-gaming oriented hardware. The forums are a good place to get info, but it's nice to have a non-divided opinion from trusted reviewers. I know due to time constraints you can only recommend so much, as hardware changes so quickly, I just thought it was a helpful idea for a lot of people and would like to see it in future system guides.

We hold no particular grudge against Linux, FreeBSD, or other desktop PC operating systems, but we think most TR readers will want to stick with Windows

Linux is free so why not run both? Das boot! er I mean dual boot!

So I recommend Kubuntu!
http://www.kubuntu.org/

Ubuntu + KDE.

After more than a decade of using Linux desktops and years of playing WoW I hate gnomes ;-)

Surprisingly enough, I found myself actually wondering if you were going to recommend Triple Crossfire 4850's in the double stuff workstation.... but even I think that's a bit much.

The Antec earthwatts EA-380 is rated at a combined 324 Watts on the two +12 Volt rails, or a total of 27 Amperes. While an individual rail may allow up to 17 A, the total of the two must stay at 27 A or below.

Having said that, 324 watts is plenty of power for the Econbox system.

i just want to say that this is a great guide, but i kind of wish there was a "specialty system" guide- for advanced users or people who already have a computer in the house. mostly secondary-use comps.

computers are getting so ubiquitous these days that even average, non-techie people are getting multiple computers with specialized uses or requirements.

the two most prominent ones i'd say are:
1. media center
2. home server

i'm not sure if we should add low-power or silent computers up here, since TR doesn't really specialize in that stuff like SPCR or mini-itx.com does.

Intel CPU...ATI HD 4850 and Vista 64.....now where have I seen a rig like that? Oh yeah...that's mine :)
Nice system choices for a range of budgets...good work TR!

The GGC-H20L has great reviews on Newegg, and now that Blu-ray has won the format war, we feel safe in recommending a high-definition drive.

Just FYI, the LG drive also plays HD-DVDs, so no need to sacrifice anything!

Here is the High End Gaming System compare to $3000 PC:
CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000 - $169.99
(http://www.microcenter.comsingle_product_results.phtml?product_id=0263397)
OCZ GAMEXSTREAM 600W - $49.99
(http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=316504&ps=pn3)
ASUS P5Q Deluxe Intel P45 - $189.99
(http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10008662)
Intel Core 2 E8400 3.0 1333mhz - $184.99
(http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0281097)
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler - $49.99
(http://www.directron.com/u120e.html)
Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Case Fan, 1600RPM - $12.99
(http://www.directron.com/sff21f.html)
OCZ Flex II 4GB (PC2 9200) - $111.99
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227299)
PNY XLR8 GeForce 9800 GX2 - $379.99 ($429.99 - $30 rebate - $20 paypal cashback)
(http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3680303&CatId=3669)
Maxtor 1TB Serial ATA/300 Hard Drive - $159.99
(http://www.netaffilia.com/ads/electronics/frys/Maxtor-1TB-Serial-ATA-300-Hard-Drive/2008/06/27/33440)

Total for this System : $1309.91

SAMSUNG T260 Rose-Black 25.5" Monitor - $529.99
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001276&Tpk=Samsung%2bT260)

you guys need to come up with something better for monitor recomandations
it's always the dells and today you even ignore the most popular sizes 22" and 24"
and you shouldn't recomand the q9300 for the sweet spot system just to save the q9450 for the workstation since for 55$ more (less then 4 % of the total price of the system) you get a faster cpu with more cache , better OC and a performance gain that can't be optain so cheap in any other way
it's obvious that you just wanted to keep the q9450 for the next system and that's wrong. many ppl go after your recomandation and helping them with the best advice possible should be the primary objective.
it's also rather weird to see muskin all over and since in the previous 2 guides 4 (out of 6) systems had muskin it apears that you guys favor them for no reason

other then that ,as always, a rather good guide

Wow, ATI tore the roof off.

May I suggest an alternative to the 780G mobo that was recommended?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128335

For the exact same price, the GA-MA78G-DS3H is an ATX rather than mATX, so it has more slots for expansion. It's all solid capacitor. I just finished a build for a fella and used this mobo and the build went flawlessly. Also, <ctrl> + F1 will, of course, give you the overclocking menu, but I expect the S2H does as well.

It just so happened that I used the recommended x2-5200 which runs at 2.7GHz and is impressively cool running. I'd love to replace my aging x2-3600 with one and see how it overclocks. My x2-3600 hits the wall at just under 3.0GHz, but I'm pretty sure the x2-5200 would do 3.2 with ease.

the rig that i built was just in between the sweet spot and double-stuff. i had to fit it into a mATX board, so only 1 GPU (4850) but yeah.... good stuff. core 2 quad + 8 gigs, blu-ray, loads of storage...

They just deactivated the Samsung SH-S203B (CD/DVD Burner) today. Meaning it'll no longer be made. You should revise you choice on it.

Case-in-point...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151153&Tpk...

Edit: This was suppose to reply to #3 and looks like they fixed it already.

Wow this came out a lot earlier than I had expected! Also, that cover image looks nuts-sexy!